tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post7154472143186042722..comments2023-10-28T09:25:39.790-04:00Comments on The Atavist: A Friday RantThe Atavisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-61790379938424798962007-04-05T11:11:00.000-04:002007-04-05T11:11:00.000-04:00I agree that people need to want to help themselve...I agree that people need to want to help themselves before things will change for them. Any 'help' that allows them to simply coast along or to remain complacent will ultimately fail. Only personal motivation will make the difference.<BR/><BR/>How though, to motivate people to want to make the effort to get out of their predicament? It's not easy.The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-88267283003539208862007-04-04T19:22:00.000-04:002007-04-04T19:22:00.000-04:00Amen. Well said, Sieg...As far as you went.The ind...Amen. Well said, Sieg...As far as you went.<BR/>The individual with the problem must be looking to solve it, before the "hand up" will do them any good. Most want excuses, not answers for their problems. For those who genuinely want answers and solutions, they will be provided, regardless of whether "walk the talk" is there or not. "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" is not hollow rhetoric. It describes a principle that operates in life as surely as the sun rising and setting, and that is believing equals receiving. Once a person discovers the limitless power available to the persistant, he or she should use it to their advantage, then teach others less informed about this simple lever to the mastery of life.<BR/>It would do much more than all the collectivist gimmee schemes and other such altruism ever has, or ever will.TheWayfarerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15074292938877766871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-22596611682426475122007-04-04T09:16:00.000-04:002007-04-04T09:16:00.000-04:00Galt: You said: "There is one person who can chan...Galt: You said: "There is one person who can change your life for you. Take a look in the mirror, and you'll find him."<BR/><BR/>Amen. That is exactly what I believe. There is never anything wrong with getting a hand up from someone, but you have to decide that you want to improve your life and then do the work, and make the sacrifices, necessary to get what you want.The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-78614601305363951342007-04-03T21:12:00.000-04:002007-04-03T21:12:00.000-04:00There used to be a privately-funded program among ...There used to be a privately-funded program among churches called Tough Love, designed to help parents cope with teenagers that had, as I like to say, "freaked out": gone over the edge into drugs, hippiedom and the gutter. It wasn't pretty, but it got the job done, and reasonably too.<BR/>There are a whole lot of people out there who just don't give a damn to do anything but "scratch their itches"; slake their lusts, and preferably, at someone else's expense as much as possible. You'd be amazed how many alleged "charities" and private social projects have followed the government model of endless subsidy and a "hope" of reform by miracle or happenstance.<BR/>Such outfits may as well be hoping for gold and silver to fall from the skies!<BR/>It's absolutely pathetic.<BR/><BR/>There is one person who can change your life for you. Take a look in the mirror, and you'll find him. That person is also responsible for your life. All this trite, pap talk of reinventing the broken handout wheel has gone on countless times before. It was drivel then, and it's drivel now. I don't know what starts it, really. Is it vanity, egotism, some combination thereof?<BR/>I guess folks just rationalize that they've had it so good through the reward of useful effort, somehow they feel guilty if they don't try to "redistribute/share the wealth" and set about it as therapy. Perhaps this last, psychological "benefit" is worth the resources wasted.<BR/><BR/>There is one medium of exchange between people of reason, and that is fair trade of value for value. It is disgraced and disrespected by those who wish to loot value by force, or mooch it with tears. To cross that line is to abandon logic and careen down the slippery slope of emotionalism.TheWayfarerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15074292938877766871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-41025105927818209462007-04-02T15:43:00.000-04:002007-04-02T15:43:00.000-04:00LOL!!I am so happy that I checked back on these co...LOL!!<BR/><BR/>I am so happy that I checked back on these comments.<BR/><BR/>wow.<BR/><BR/><I>Jen: If you write a super long comment, highlight and copy, just incase - then you have it on your clipboard, in order that you might try again.</I>SuperP.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830641369098524799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-62747043894818449242007-03-31T13:38:00.000-04:002007-03-31T13:38:00.000-04:00Jen: As usual, we agree on the salient points. R...Jen: As usual, we agree on the salient points. Really, we do. Some people need help. You want to help them all. Some of those people actually deserve help. Those are the ones I want to help. We differ in degree only. Well, maybe there is another difference. I want to help them privately and, if I understand you correctly, you would prefer to do so under officially sanctioned and funded (via taxation) programs.<BR/><BR/>Watch for my next post. Maybe there is somethiung we can all do to make things just a little bit better, somehow.The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-14826171778294920642007-03-31T12:54:00.001-04:002007-03-31T12:54:00.001-04:00now who's the libertarian?can i get a button or so...now who's the libertarian?<BR/><BR/>can i get a button or something?<BR/><BR/>wandering off now.Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-86025675984617005562007-03-31T12:54:00.000-04:002007-03-31T12:54:00.000-04:00oh, and i still hold that the larger issue is that...oh, and i still hold that the larger issue is that money spent on defense is wasted. the money spent on service programs could be administered better too, with realistic objectives and less bureacracy.<BR/><BR/>we can agree to disagree and i can do so with glee and respect, but i will forever refuse to concede that our financial woes are due to the money spent on social programs when we spent much, much more on defense. it's just easier to blame the little guys for our collective misfortune.<BR/><BR/>and i don't mean your blame, but rather the propaganda machine's way of putting on the spin. perhaps the larger issue indeed is we can trust nothing that comes out of a bureacrats mouth.Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-57057993444172164252007-03-31T12:50:00.000-04:002007-03-31T12:50:00.000-04:00dammit all to hell. another comment eaten.the shor...dammit all to hell. another comment eaten.<BR/><BR/>the short of it was that if I lost my job, on J's alone we'd be considered Very Low Income, and we'd be screwed in two months time. The wait lists for affordable housing would be closed, and we'd eat through meager savings. And then what? If we couldn't recover we'd be forced to move into some sort of program, and then we'd be tossed around like balls on bingo night.<BR/><BR/>all because i lost my job. i've seen it a thousand times, and then the effects of this trauma take it's toll...and bam. we've become part of the system.<BR/><BR/>and the worst part is i can't carry a tune, so we'd not be able to make money that way, either :)<BR/><BR/>great discussion going on around here today!Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-71794279503418127292007-03-31T10:18:00.000-04:002007-03-31T10:18:00.000-04:00Jen: It is a good thing that I dropped in at your...Jen: It is a good thing that I dropped in at your site before I started writing here, in response to your comment above. Otherwise, I might have thought that I alone was responsible for your having a 'shit night' and that would have made me sad. <BR/><BR/>I think you know that I am not some cold, callous, uncaring curmudgeon. Well, I probably am a curmudgeon, but I do care about others. I think you understand that I don't want to deprive everyone else of their 'rights' so I can sit in a secret vault somewhere and, like Scrooge McDuck (remember him? Nah, you are probably much too young) play among my piles of cash and gold.<BR/><BR/>But... what are rights? The American constitution guarantees the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What does that mean? Here is what I wrote on the subject elsewhere:<BR/><BR/>"The right to life simply means that no-one else has the right to kill you. It doesn’t mean that everyone else has to support you, entertain you, educate your children, and give you a place to live.<BR/><BR/>"The right to liberty simply means that no-one has the right to detain you, to force you to do things you don’t wish to do, to keep you from doing things you want to do, or to restrain you from speaking freely or assembling with others. It doesn’t mean that you can escape responsibility or consequence if you have caused harm to others.<BR/><BR/>"The right to pursue happiness is your guarantee that no-one can reasonably interfere with you as you go about your life unless, and this is very important, your actions interfere with the similar rights of others."<BR/><BR/>Those are rights. Pretty much everything else is really privilege, the cost of which is borne by the taxpayer. Does that mean that we shouldn't be concerned about the needy, the poor, the sick? Not at all. <BR/> <BR/>My rant, first of all, was not directed specifically at the homeless. But... and I'm speaking only of my experience here, closer to home, many homeless don't actually need to be homeless. There are places where they could go but they might not like the conditions under which they would be accomodated there. They might not like the fact that it is 'lights out' at a certain time, or that drinking or drugging might not be allowed, or simply that they don't like being told what to do. If I were ever to lose everything, I would probably prefer to sleep under a bridge than to chafe under the rules of an organized shelter somehwere.<BR/><BR/>I have a relative who lives in a group home. He could never function on his own, and he lived with his parents until he was about fifty, then moved into a group home where his needs are met. He could easily be homeless because, like many of the homeless in Canada, he is schizophrenic and while he requires lots of care, he doesn't really 'fit in' and is very difficult to care for. <BR/><BR/>I absolutely agree with your points that much too much money is spent on the military in the United States and on a lot of other silly stuff as well. Canadian governments have perfected the art of wasting money and I know all about that. We just waste our tax dollars on other stuff here.<BR/><BR/>The larger issue though, is that much money that is spent on social programs is wasted. And, before it is wasted, it is extracted from the taxpayer. And what do we get? Certainly not solutions, because if that were the case, you and I would have nothing to write about. Things are far from perfect.<BR/><BR/>I would love to sit around a table someday, you and I and Penny and Chani and some of the other very bright folks who drop in here and discuss this in person. It would be a long, long, discussion, because there are no easy answers. <BR/><BR/>BTW, if you have a good singing voice, I play 'Over the Rainbow' on the guitar. Maybe we could cut a record, make millions of dollars in profits, and donate the proceeds to the poor.<BR/><BR/>Do you think that might work? Maybe not.<BR/><BR/>But, I suspect, private solutions to the problem, if we all spent some time thinking about it, would go much farther than government solutions.The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-76935217525740842282007-03-31T09:23:00.000-04:002007-03-31T09:23:00.000-04:00Chani: I agree that the Thai model wouldn't work ...Chani: I agree that the Thai model wouldn't work here in North America without a huge shift in our attitudes. In the German community in which I grew up here in Canada, that sort of thing was more common in the fifties. Often, three generations of the same family would live together. The grandparents would take care of the kids, the parents would work, and every spare penny would be saved. In the entire German community there, only one family seemed to lag behind the others, and they still managed to raise three kids, pay for their home and prepare for retirement -- all without resorting to welfare. The Germans weren't alone. One could say the same for the Italians, the Hungarians, the Portuguese and many other groups which were respresented in the immigrant community where I grew up.<BR/><BR/>Why did these people all succeed? Two reasons: One, they had no choice. There were no government programs like today's. They came to Canada and basically had to sink or swim. They swam. The second reason is that these people all had some sort of cultural work ethic. They equated work and responsibility with success. They saw an opportunity to improve the lives of themselves and their offspring and they took it. They did the most menial jobs, worked as many hours of overtime as they could manage, and prospered. They raised, mostly, well-balanced families who in turn passed on the values of hard work and responsibility to the next generation.<BR/><BR/>That is the difference. Many immigrants here today collect welfare. And many don't have the work ethic and sense of personal responsibility that earlier immigrants had.<BR/><BR/>I have absolutely nothing agsint immigrants, of any race, colour, nationality, religion. I just expect them to take care of themselves. We did.The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-68904697847797193222007-03-31T04:21:00.000-04:002007-03-31T04:21:00.000-04:00i just finished writing the longest freaking comme...i just finished writing the longest freaking comment of my entire blogging life and it was eaten. i probably don't need to tell you how irritated i am right now. there is no possible way to recreate it either, the last night masterpiece that it was.<BR/><BR/>I've had a shit night, so I am probably going to sound tense, and that isn't directed at you (stop by later, i wrote about it) but I will say with utmost respect that I don't really agree. <BR/><BR/>Our economic party is over, but because of greed and war and weapons, not because we bent over backwards caring for people. I don't agree that more money is spent on homelessness than ever before, George has cut HUD every year, and the decline in affordable housing continues. <BR/><BR/>Why don't people give a shit? Why are they filled with such despair? And what, truly, should our role be? Can we ever feel free when others are oppressed? I can't, At...no matter how I bend it I can't reconcile that, because there for the grace of god go i.<BR/><BR/>ps. i absolutely respect your angle on these issues, and i don't expect us to walk hand in hand singing somewhere over the rainbow together (although now that's making me giggle) and in fact, i prefer it like this, because we respect each other enough to tackle difficult issues knowing it might bring dissent, and you showed me that yet again by going to great lengths to be kind to me (before trashing the homeless, dude)<BR/><BR/>kidding.<BR/><BR/>seriously, friend...how can we all give a shit about the right things? and what are the right things to give a shit about?Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-63815800515976132262007-03-31T01:00:00.000-04:002007-03-31T01:00:00.000-04:00A few thoughts: I agree with some of the things yo...A few thoughts: <BR/><BR/>I agree with some of the things you say. On the other hand, my whole view of the world is so different that the things with which I disagree are perhaps a bit more prominent. :)<BR/><BR/>See, I believe we live in a human community ~ and that community is largely defined by how we treat each other. <BR/><BR/>I don't believe the government is the solution, either.. which is where we agree. <BR/><BR/>The government is a thug. It is an oligarchy. In no way do I trust the government to do what we as a community should do for each other. <BR/><BR/>In most cases, families should care for their own. That means some level of sacrifice on an individual level because maybe it means everyone can't go off to various parts of the country or world and do their "own thing". It means that when there are old people or sick people, the family works together to take care of that person. <BR/><BR/>Many homeless people are homeless because their families are too bloody selfish to take care of them. <BR/><BR/>I believe this change has to come about through social standards and acculturation. <BR/><BR/>I know quite a few Vietnamese people here in Sacramento. It is not unusual for multiple generations to live in one house, to pool their money to start businesses, to take care of each other, raise the children..<BR/><BR/>It is very similar to Thailand's situation. Did you know that Thailand has very few homeless people? They do not have social services at a government level. <BR/><BR/>Just like the Vietnamese, they are taught from a very young age that they have responsibilities to their families, extended and immediate. They are taught cooperation instead of competition, community instead of selfishness. <BR/><BR/>It works. It's worked there for thousands of years. <BR/><BR/>Ok. So .. that's Vietnam and Thailand. <BR/><BR/>What about here? <BR/><BR/>That won't work here because the culture is built on the premise that individual happiness matters more than community responsibility. <BR/><BR/>We are not islands ~ yet this social system teaches that we should be independent entirely of others. Therefore we owe nothing to anyone else. <BR/><BR/>So the US has to have social service programs. <BR/><BR/>There's no way around it unless the culture itself changes. <BR/><BR/>Just a few thoughts... <BR/><BR/>Wow.. um.. yeah.. a few. :)<BR/><BR/><BR/>Peace, <BR/><BR/>~Chanithailandchanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171731740204067889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-82774349278097049992007-03-30T23:50:00.000-04:002007-03-30T23:50:00.000-04:00whoa...i just saw my name in here but don't have t...whoa...i just saw my name in here but don't have time to give it a thorough read...will be back later.<BR/><BR/>At-the-dude. thank you! I'll be back.Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-4642630951928060862007-03-30T15:31:00.000-04:002007-03-30T15:31:00.000-04:00Touche, Atavist. ;)Touche, Atavist. ;)SuperP.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830641369098524799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-66610483037744673322007-03-30T15:28:00.000-04:002007-03-30T15:28:00.000-04:00I think to me, Penny, the notion of a 'hand up' to...I think to me, Penny, the notion of a 'hand up' to help someone get themselves out of a rut is one thing, but a handout every week, or every month forever, is not acceptable. People have to take that first painful step to help themselves. The second step is easier, the third easier yet, and so on. <BR/><BR/>What's the expression: "God helps those who help themselves."The Atavisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529157597486952484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-28836425898177629632007-03-30T15:21:00.000-04:002007-03-30T15:21:00.000-04:00PS. The man I gave the two dollars and thirty fiv...PS. The man I gave the two dollars and thirty five cent to, walked across the parkinglot and into a greasy spoon diner. And do you know what crossed my mind? Yes, he eats now, so that he may live another day to drink. But, hopefully, in a few more days, or a few more months, or a few more years, one day, he won't live to drink. Had I not been so hopeless at one point in my life, I may not have this optimistic perspective.<BR/><BR/>However.. I've only ever walked in my own shoes. And, until half my income is going to taxes that feed and clothe and educate the children of the pimps and whores and the chronically lazy, I retain the right to change my mind, though I doubt I will.<BR/><BR/>I have to say, I admire your writing, Atavist. You ask all the right questions. I don't mean that flippantly.SuperP.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830641369098524799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6931353.post-73230476813438095562007-03-30T15:14:00.000-04:002007-03-30T15:14:00.000-04:00I was just thinking along these lines, earlier thi...I was just thinking along these lines, earlier this week. A man asked me if I had forty cents. I gave him two thirty five. Afterward, I recognized him as I man I had been in a detox center with. I wondered why, since we'd both met under similar circumstances with the same options available to us, thanks be to the government and tax dollars, why I made it and he didn't. Money is only one part of the solution and as medications are to therapy, if it isn't combined with social programs and psychological/psychiatric/sociological help, it isn't much good.<BR/><BR/>But, having said that, how can we decide who is worth and who isn't?<BR/><BR/>Like I've said before, we cannot simply view or meet a man in one moment of his life and total his sum worth on only that which you see or believe. We all have our own paths and had people seen me broke and literally starving to death, while I drank and smoked, I can see them having had the same concerns. And, I wonder, when donating to the food bank, how many people think, "those mothers are probably just spending their checks on liquor or movie rentals", in the way that we assess the homeless guy on the street, who we think is probably going to take our two dollars and drink it away. We can't make those judgments, because we cannot see the whole picture.<BR/><BR/>And so, we have programs in place. And, they have to encompass those who 'deserve' it and those who 'don't', because it would be too painstaking to listen to every single story from beginning to end, with all the various aspects of abuse, biology, chemistry, genetics, successes, failures, attempts, motivations and who would determine who was worthy?<BR/><BR/>It is frustrating, but, for the sake of argument, God said that we should not judge and He said that we should help the poor. I think in doing these things, not blindly, but openly, we leave the doors open for those who can and will. Should we shut all the doors for those who can and will, for the sake of the few who can't and won't? <BR/><BR/>It's a hard argument. <BR/><BR/>I knew a few families on welfare who drank and smoked while their kids went hungry. Bad choices, certainly. Is addiction a disease, most likely. They should be helping their children, but if they aren't, we have to.<BR/><BR/>Without social programs, we would not be a society of the very rich and very poor, we would be a society of the very criminal and the only slightly so.<BR/><BR/>Bold, I know. But, isn't it true? Or, is that my generalization and oversimplification.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, Atavist. I know you have a good heart and I understand your frustrations. <BR/><BR/>Faith, my friend. Faith.SuperP.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830641369098524799noreply@blogger.com